Alice Keeler | "Smartboards ruined EdTech"

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Digitize Fully Charged Podcast. I'm your host Pam Curry and I'm joined as always by Niall Ridgway.

[00:00:13] Now today's episode I'm so excited about. Alice Keeler, I've previously called her the Taylor Swift of EdTech, is joining us to talk about what she's been up to.

[00:00:23] She's been trying out Chromebooks and she's been discovering new social networks. So let's dive in. Talk to Alice.

[00:00:34] Alice, my darling, it is lovely to see you again.

[00:00:39] All the way from Kansas.

[00:00:43] Alice, you're spending all your time on Blue Sky, Alice.

[00:00:46] I literally am spending all of my time on Blue Sky from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep.

[00:00:52] And for those of you listening who don't know what Blue Sky is, it's the better Twitter, which I will not be calling X.

[00:00:58] So let's just get past that.

[00:00:59] And even before Elon Musk bought X, it really started to go downhill with people being, this is my opinion, negative.

[00:01:07] And driving away a lot of the teachers.

[00:01:10] It used to be I'd go on to Twitter and I would just get so many like quick ideas.

[00:01:14] Like I didn't even have to scroll.

[00:01:16] Yeah.

[00:01:16] Oh, that's a good idea.

[00:01:17] That's a good idea.

[00:01:18] And I feel really energized.

[00:01:20] Yeah.

[00:01:20] And then I just really think it became a toxic place.

[00:01:25] And so the teacher teachers, it seemed to me, were kind of like, not for us.

[00:01:31] And, you know, the ed tech specialists hang around, which is good.

[00:01:35] But even now, they're like, whoa, what's going on here?

[00:01:39] Sure.

[00:01:40] So two years ago, when Elon Musk bought Twitter, this site called Blue Sky popped up.

[00:01:49] Now it is Twitter.

[00:01:51] It is almost exactly like Twitter.

[00:01:52] If you know Twitter, you know Blue Sky, except it has just way more ways to block people.

[00:01:57] Mm-hmm.

[00:01:57] Woo!

[00:01:57] Woo!

[00:01:58] It's just a safer environment.

[00:02:00] And it's open source.

[00:02:01] So it's not driven by a billionaire's algorithm.

[00:02:05] So really, actually, you can make your own algorithms and see the content of what you want

[00:02:10] to see, which is, of course, cat pictures, which I will provide for you if you follow me.

[00:02:14] I don't have a cat, but my daughter and my son do.

[00:02:18] And the cat is right here sleeping next to me because it thinks I should feed it at four

[00:02:24] o'clock in the morning.

[00:02:25] And I take pictures of its butt in my face.

[00:02:28] So sometimes I post that.

[00:02:30] So if you want cat pictures, alicekeeler.com on Blue Sky.

[00:02:36] But I reached out to the Blue Sky people and I said, so, you know, Twitter is dying and

[00:02:42] the educator community used to be really awesome.

[00:02:45] I would like to help build the educator community.

[00:02:48] Give me a bunch of invites, which at the time, people were buying them on eBay.

[00:02:52] You couldn't get an invite.

[00:02:53] So they gave me 300.

[00:02:55] And I have been diligently working on this for two years, you guys, where I use the hashtag

[00:03:02] EduSky and then I post like once a day.

[00:03:05] So I was posting seven to 10 times a week, just trying to commenting on people, trying to

[00:03:10] get the community going.

[00:03:11] And then, you know, when Trump won, everyone decided we don't want to be here anymore.

[00:03:18] And like, literally the day after Trump won the US election, it has been an exodus over to

[00:03:28] Blue Sky.

[00:03:29] And everyone's just like, oh my gosh, it's like the old days.

[00:03:33] It's a fresh breath of air.

[00:03:34] So if you get nothing out of this conversation, come join us.

[00:03:38] If you don't want to hear from me, you can block me.

[00:03:40] You can mute me.

[00:03:41] You can mute hashtags.

[00:03:42] I have multiple things that I'm interested in.

[00:03:45] Like, I like to talk about education.

[00:03:48] Specifically, students that are learning using technology, right?

[00:03:51] Then I also get really into politics.

[00:03:54] Let's not talk about that.

[00:03:56] But I have a bunch of people I follow who are talking about that.

[00:04:00] And then I also am a Google developer expert for Google Workspace, which means that I code.

[00:04:06] So I follow a bunch of really nerdy people that teachers would never like want to.

[00:04:11] So, but what's nice, I feel about Blue Skies, I can have all three of me in one place.

[00:04:17] Because I can create lists and allows me to pin the list.

[00:04:19] So if I just click on the tabs up at the top that I create, then I see what I want.

[00:04:24] So when I want to see things about Google, I have a feed that just shows me Google EDU.

[00:04:30] And I'm interacting with people around Google Workspace.

[00:04:33] If I just want to see people talking about education, I've got a feed that's filtered for EduSky.

[00:04:39] And then I add other people into lists and I pin the list.

[00:04:43] So it's like, just these people are talking about coding.

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:47] And then I can have those conversations without.

[00:04:51] So it's like you're in control.

[00:04:54] Like you, people are determining what the algorithm shows them, aren't they?

[00:04:59] With Blue Skies.

[00:04:59] That's right.

[00:05:00] And it's, it's built on blockchain, right?

[00:05:03] I think it is.

[00:05:04] I know how to spell blockchain.

[00:05:06] Yeah.

[00:05:07] So, so like there's, it's not, it's not this idea that one person is getting rich and that,

[00:05:12] I mean, there's no advertising yet, is there?

[00:05:14] There's, there's no advertising platform as yet.

[00:05:17] No, I'm going to say something unpopular.

[00:05:19] I noticed in your show notes, what controversial thing do you want to talk about?

[00:05:22] I have so many controversial things I can talk about.

[00:05:25] But one is, I don't think tools should be free.

[00:05:28] Ah.

[00:05:29] Oh.

[00:05:30] Okay.

[00:05:30] My job.

[00:05:31] Right?

[00:05:31] Because if it's, if it's free, you are the product.

[00:05:35] If you, if you want it to be free, it's, it can't, that's not sustainable.

[00:05:40] And those engineers have to be paid.

[00:05:42] The servers are expensive.

[00:05:44] All that stuff is expensive.

[00:05:45] So how do you generate money to pay the engineers, the marketing, if you don't have a product,

[00:05:53] right?

[00:05:54] How do you pay for all of that?

[00:05:55] If you don't have a paid model.

[00:05:58] And then if you want feature upgrades, why would they listen to you if you're not paying

[00:06:04] them?

[00:06:05] So to make it sustainable, to make it high quality, paying should be the norm.

[00:06:11] So when they come up with a pay model, I'm going to pay.

[00:06:13] I'm going to pay because I want it to stick around.

[00:06:15] I'm not telling anybody else to do anything.

[00:06:17] That's what I'm going to do.

[00:06:20] But you'll look at Flipgrid, you know, it wasn't generating money.

[00:06:25] That's it.

[00:06:26] Bye.

[00:06:27] I know.

[00:06:28] And we're not even stated.

[00:06:29] Like, well, how do you even replace Flipgrid?

[00:06:32] Oh, here's a tool that makes a video.

[00:06:34] You know, you're missing it.

[00:06:36] It's like we've got, as a society, there was a world when, like, we became used to getting

[00:06:41] things for free, didn't we?

[00:06:43] But you were always the product.

[00:06:45] Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:46] Now go look at Facebook.

[00:06:46] It's unlookable.

[00:06:50] How many literally in a row is not person I'm following, not person I'm following, not

[00:06:56] person I'm following, not person, in a row?

[00:06:59] 10?

[00:06:59] Yep.

[00:07:00] 12?

[00:07:00] 20?

[00:07:02] I'm not exaggerating.

[00:07:04] Do you know, I've not even been logged into Facebook for about six weeks, I don't

[00:07:08] think.

[00:07:08] Because its algorithm is not about connecting you with people.

[00:07:12] It's about making Zuckerberg money, which is why we're not using threads.

[00:07:16] Oh, now that Blue Sky is picking up some steam, maybe they'll let you prioritize the people

[00:07:26] you follow.

[00:07:28] What?

[00:07:29] So that was the news this week.

[00:07:30] The news this week is that Zuckerberg is going to try out letting you put who you're following

[00:07:37] in front of the algorithm as your feed.

[00:07:41] But you got to, like, know how to move it.

[00:07:43] It's not going to default that for you.

[00:07:45] Which, by the way, it doesn't default that for you in Blue Sky either, right?

[00:07:48] So when you sign up for a Blue Sky account, first thing you see is the Discover feed.

[00:07:52] Because if you show up and you see nothing, you'd be like, what is this?

[00:07:57] So the first thing to do is follow a bunch of people.

[00:07:59] And then you go to your feeds, click edit.

[00:08:02] And I deleted the Discover feed.

[00:08:04] Like, I don't have any, no algorithm.

[00:08:07] I'm algorithm free.

[00:08:11] I am company-made algorithm free because, of course, I made a bunch of algorithms.

[00:08:15] And that's what Blue Sky lets you do is write your own algorithm.

[00:08:18] It's called a feed.

[00:08:19] Yeah.

[00:08:19] And you pin those.

[00:08:20] And then it's the way that you want it.

[00:08:22] And you decide what kind of content you see as well, don't you?

[00:08:25] Right.

[00:08:26] There's lots of, is there not like ticky boxes or something for like what type of content?

[00:08:32] That's the best and worst part is there's so many ways to have control over your content.

[00:08:36] So just, you know, get a cup of tea or whatever you like, you know, or whatever Niall's drinking.

[00:08:44] And go through and read all of the settings really slowly because there's just like a lot of these different options.

[00:08:50] So one of the things that people are doing is they're using a red push pin to like, I want to remember this thread later.

[00:08:55] I want to bookmark it.

[00:08:57] I want to save it.

[00:08:57] Well, then I go to my notifications.

[00:08:59] It's just like, because I'm putting up content that people want to save.

[00:09:02] Yeah.

[00:09:03] So then it's red push pin, red push pin, red push.

[00:09:05] I don't want to see that.

[00:09:06] It's not for me.

[00:09:08] Why am I being notified of these red push pins?

[00:09:10] So I go on any post, I go to the three dots and I choose mute words and I muted the red push pin and I never see it.

[00:09:20] Nice.

[00:09:21] Smooth moves.

[00:09:23] Right.

[00:09:23] Niall, we need to get ourselves on blue sky.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:26] So you're on.

[00:09:28] So I have a story.

[00:09:29] Yes.

[00:09:30] So over the past couple of months, I have noticed that my engagement personally and with me on Twitter has really died down.

[00:09:39] Yes.

[00:09:39] So a couple of months ago, I was like, what else is out there?

[00:09:42] I wasn't actually looking.

[00:09:43] I was just kind of like interested.

[00:09:46] And then maybe two weeks ago or so, I put into our work chat and was like, does anybody use blue sky?

[00:09:55] Like what is this?

[00:09:56] I've heard this kind of this word.

[00:09:59] And then turns out it's been having its own wee revolution.

[00:10:02] It's having a moment, isn't it?

[00:10:04] And blew up.

[00:10:05] So I joined.

[00:10:06] I have an account.

[00:10:08] And all I'm seeing on the news is that it's gaining however many millions of users every single day.

[00:10:15] Last I checked, which was this morning, 22 million.

[00:10:18] Yeah.

[00:10:20] That's quite an increase.

[00:10:21] That's a big increase, isn't it?

[00:10:23] Because was it not just hovering around like 1 million not that long ago?

[00:10:27] Oh, no.

[00:10:28] Before Trump, it was 14 million.

[00:10:30] Oh, was it?

[00:10:30] All right.

[00:10:31] Okay.

[00:10:31] What was the other one beginning with M?

[00:10:34] Oh, Macedon.

[00:10:35] I called it death when it started.

[00:10:37] That's not to disparage the people on Macedon because here's the beauty, right?

[00:10:43] Is that both Macedon and Blue Sky are quote unquote unfederated.

[00:10:47] I can't even spell that.

[00:10:49] I can spell the other blockchain.

[00:10:51] I don't know how you spell federated, whatever.

[00:10:54] But I think that this means you control your data, right?

[00:10:58] So you can host your posts from Macedon.

[00:11:02] You can host your posts from Blue Sky.

[00:11:03] And the things that I post in Blue Sky can be seen in other post aggregators that are also unfederated.

[00:11:10] So if you're like, I don't like what Blue Sky is doing, you can take your account and your whole presence and everything and just use it somewhere else.

[00:11:18] So they have it set up.

[00:11:20] It's not a for-profit.

[00:11:22] Well, they make money, but it's a public good.

[00:11:24] It's a public good corporation, not a C Corp, which is a big difference, right?

[00:11:30] C Corp has a fiduciary responsibility for the stakeholders, whereas a public good corporation has a responsibility to the public.

[00:11:39] So there's that.

[00:11:41] And then it's open source.

[00:11:42] And then all of these other things have it in a way that they just can't sell it to a billionaire.

[00:11:47] Yeah.

[00:11:49] Yeah.

[00:11:50] That's it.

[00:11:50] So if you're on Mastodon, that's more theoretical right now.

[00:11:55] But in theory, like if you're on Mastodon, Mastodon and Blue Sky should be able to aggregate together in a third party.

[00:12:03] You know how like you went to like, I don't know, Buffer or something where you can get multiple?

[00:12:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:09] So that in theory is what's going to be happening is that you're going to be able to use a platform that pulls in and federated posts from multiple pages like Mastodon, Blue Sky, and now we're together.

[00:12:24] Makes sense.

[00:12:25] I've been spending since the demise of Twitter, like we all knew and loved it for a while.

[00:12:31] I've been spending a lot of time on LinkedIn.

[00:12:33] That's where I've gone.

[00:12:34] And I've noticed there's a few people in the edtech world kind of there.

[00:12:41] But Alice is sceptical.

[00:12:43] Well, no, I'm on LinkedIn too.

[00:12:45] Yeah.

[00:12:45] Pam, is it like old days of Twitter?

[00:12:48] Not quite.

[00:12:49] Are people talking, you know, just sharing lots of plans and little tips?

[00:12:53] No.

[00:12:53] Probably not.

[00:12:54] No, it's mostly, hey, I got this certification.

[00:12:58] Yeah, show offs.

[00:12:59] Yeah.

[00:13:00] Which, well, sure.

[00:13:03] You have to self-promise.

[00:13:05] Yeah, that's true.

[00:13:06] So what's the content like on Blue Sky?

[00:13:10] So I find personally that Instagram is very much like the beautiful classrooms.

[00:13:17] And like, look at this beautiful piece of work that my students have created.

[00:13:20] I find LinkedIn is very kind of bloggy and certified, as you said.

[00:13:24] And then Twitter used to be the kind of sharing short snippets or sharing a picture of what's been going on.

[00:13:30] Where does Blue Sky sit in all of that?

[00:13:31] So Blue Sky is Twitter.

[00:13:33] Just remember that.

[00:13:33] Blue Sky is not just pre-Elon Musk Twitter.

[00:13:36] It's pre-toxic Twitter.

[00:13:38] Yeah.

[00:13:39] It was an old story.

[00:13:40] But the guy that started Twitter was involved in.

[00:13:43] He started Blue Sky, didn't he?

[00:13:44] So yeah, Jack Murphy was part of that.

[00:13:45] You know, the whole tech bro industry, they cannibalize each other or whatever.

[00:13:52] So he came over.

[00:13:55] He was initially involved.

[00:13:56] He didn't start it.

[00:13:57] He was just on board.

[00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:13:59] So right.

[00:13:59] So then when at some point he decided him and Elon Musk are best friends, which makes no sense because of course there was lots of trash talking.

[00:14:07] So whatever.

[00:14:09] Jack Dorsey is not a teacher.

[00:14:10] I could care less about him.

[00:14:12] Teachers are on Blue Sky.

[00:14:14] They're having great conversations.

[00:14:16] So hashtag EduSky, E-D-U-S-K-Y.

[00:14:20] And we do use CamelCase because it is friendly to screen readers, which also Blue Sky makes it easier to add alt text to images.

[00:14:28] And so people are out there enforcing that as well.

[00:14:31] So we want to be accessible to our screen reader community.

[00:14:35] So that is nice.

[00:14:36] Now I forgot what I was going to say.

[00:14:39] But, you know.

[00:14:40] Oh, yes.

[00:14:41] So then we started EduSky checked.

[00:14:43] So hashtag E-D-U, capital E-D-U, capital S-K-Y, capital C-H-A-T.

[00:14:52] If you go in and you just search the hashtag just like you do on Twitter, you're going to see the posts that come up for that hashtag.

[00:14:59] Shows you the top posts first, just like on Twitter.

[00:15:02] Click over and see the latest ones.

[00:15:04] And then we are doing a chat.

[00:15:07] Remember the old school Twitter chats?

[00:15:09] Yeah.

[00:15:09] So we're, we're, they're back.

[00:15:13] Brilliant.

[00:15:13] When's the last time you participated in a Twitter chat?

[00:15:15] It was so slow.

[00:15:17] Hardly anybody there.

[00:15:18] It was very lethargic.

[00:15:20] Last week we had over 900 posts in half an hour.

[00:15:23] Wow.

[00:15:25] So it was super energetic.

[00:15:27] We did another one last night.

[00:15:28] A lot of people joined in.

[00:15:30] And so that was good.

[00:15:31] We are moving the EdTech, excuse me, the EduSky chat.

[00:15:37] Chat.

[00:15:39] So Tuesdays starting in 2025, because it seems like everybody has a chat on Monday.

[00:15:44] So TLAP is on Monday.

[00:15:46] EdTech chat is on Monday.

[00:15:48] I don't know.

[00:15:49] There's like five of them on Monday.

[00:15:50] And there's nobody on Tuesday.

[00:15:52] So we're like, we'll take Tuesday.

[00:15:53] We have a Tuesday.

[00:15:56] I love that.

[00:15:57] Right.

[00:15:57] So big message coming out from you, Alice, is get on Blue Sky.

[00:16:02] That's it.

[00:16:03] That's where all the great, and it's positive conversations.

[00:16:06] And if someone's, you know, interrupting your piece, block them.

[00:16:10] And no, it's not creating an echo chamber.

[00:16:13] Let's be honest.

[00:16:14] We come to social media to share pictures of our cat.

[00:16:17] We come, here's what I'm eating today.

[00:16:20] No one's going, you know what?

[00:16:22] I wonder where I can get yelled at.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:25] You know what?

[00:16:26] I embrace a diversity of opinions.

[00:16:28] I don't embrace you being a jerk.

[00:16:31] Absolutely.

[00:16:33] You want to, you want to like, block, block, block, block.

[00:16:38] You're like, bye.

[00:16:41] Yeah.

[00:16:42] I've had people comment on videos and like nothing that they're saying is pleasant or nice.

[00:16:50] And I'm sitting there stewing, like trying to work out what is my answer.

[00:16:54] What am I going to do?

[00:16:54] And I'm picturing one and I just went, delete.

[00:16:58] It's gone.

[00:16:58] I don't have to worry about this.

[00:17:00] I know.

[00:17:01] I try to.

[00:17:02] I try to.

[00:17:03] Once in a while I get sucked in.

[00:17:05] I'm in a bad mood.

[00:17:07] But I know better.

[00:17:09] I shouldn't do it.

[00:17:10] I'm normally a nice person.

[00:17:13] But, you know, sometimes you push my buttons.

[00:17:17] I get it.

[00:17:17] That's it.

[00:17:23] So, Alice, what we like to do on this podcast is just find out how you became you.

[00:17:31] How, what's your story?

[00:17:32] What's your, like, I'm assuming given the ed tech influence that you were in a classroom at one point in the distant past.

[00:17:40] No, not in the distant past.

[00:17:42] I taught seventh grade last year.

[00:17:43] So you did.

[00:17:44] So I moved.

[00:17:46] I moved.

[00:17:47] And the district that is around me is Microsoft.

[00:17:51] And if you say, if you know me, you know, I'm very googly.

[00:17:54] I mean, I love Microsoft too.

[00:17:56] Hi, Mike Olson.

[00:17:59] You know, it's not that I don't like, I actually do.

[00:18:02] I love teams.

[00:18:03] I really do.

[00:18:03] I love teams.

[00:18:04] There's, there's a love PowerPoint designer.

[00:18:07] Like, okay, there's lots of things I love.

[00:18:08] So I'm not trashing on it.

[00:18:10] But here's what I learned because I worked at a Microsoft district for a little bit when I was in California.

[00:18:16] It's like, can't be amazing at everything.

[00:18:19] No.

[00:18:20] And it, if I want to share tips, if I want to like really be a driver of innovative ideas, I need to be in one platform.

[00:18:28] So Google's my platform, not trashing on Microsoft.

[00:18:32] So many, so many lovely things, you know, sounds great.

[00:18:36] Great.

[00:18:37] Cool.

[00:18:37] I just don't use Google.

[00:18:39] So since I moved, I'm looking for districts near me that use Google.

[00:18:44] Or if anyone's listening, lets me teach remotely.

[00:18:49] Why?

[00:18:50] Yes.

[00:18:51] Because I have like fancy Chromebooks that I travel that look at this cool Chromebook that I have.

[00:18:57] That's very cool.

[00:18:59] It's a tablet and a Chromebook.

[00:19:02] Nice.

[00:19:02] And it attaches.

[00:19:03] Nice.

[00:19:04] I can teach from anywhere now.

[00:19:06] Teach from anywhere.

[00:19:07] So how did you, how did you get interested in technology?

[00:19:10] Like when, you know, at the start of your career, how did it, how did it happen?

[00:19:15] My background is just, we had a computer before anybody else had one.

[00:19:19] Okay.

[00:19:20] Because my dad had money, right?

[00:19:21] We had a VCR.

[00:19:23] Oh my gosh.

[00:19:23] I remember when my dad brought home the VCR.

[00:19:25] It was huge.

[00:19:26] Yeah.

[00:19:27] Like so large.

[00:19:29] And we had like way before everybody else had all of these things, we had them.

[00:19:35] And so that just kind of like, I, I grew up, I'm 48 and I've grown up with technology

[00:19:41] almost my whole life.

[00:19:43] So when I started, well, I'll back this way up.

[00:19:46] I repeated the fourth grade because I couldn't do math.

[00:19:49] Really?

[00:19:50] And I started college.

[00:19:51] I'm like, I want to graduate with this little math.

[00:19:53] It's humanly possible.

[00:19:54] And they're like, no problem.

[00:19:55] You don't need to take any.

[00:19:56] I'm like, okay, cool.

[00:19:57] So I was a history major.

[00:20:00] I wanted to go into politics.

[00:20:02] And then I, three weeks later, I changed my major to math.

[00:20:05] I just, I would pray on my way to school and just felt the Lord telling me I should,

[00:20:08] I'm like, now wait a minute here.

[00:20:09] Cause I like really, really not for me.

[00:20:14] So, you know, God tells you do something.

[00:20:18] So I, I changed my major to math.

[00:20:20] I'm like, I should probably sign up for a math class.

[00:20:23] So I didn't even take math my first semester of college.

[00:20:27] Uh, and then I took an intro to teaching course and I'm like, this is terrible.

[00:20:33] So I'm in observing the math department where they're handing out worksheets and complaining

[00:20:38] about, oh, we don't want to get new textbooks cause we'd have to write new tests.

[00:20:42] This doesn't bring me joy.

[00:20:44] I don't, so I did graduate with a degree in math with honors.

[00:20:49] I was the only person getting a non-zero score on the PEPM exam.

[00:20:52] And it turns out I'm not bad at math.

[00:20:54] I just don't do it fast.

[00:20:55] Right.

[00:20:56] And by the way, arithmetic is not math.

[00:20:58] Math is thinking, getting it wrong.

[00:21:00] It's creativity.

[00:21:01] You're not doing, it's not creative, critical thinking.

[00:21:03] It's not math.

[00:21:04] I will, I will die on that hill.

[00:21:06] Look at all these controversial things I bring up.

[00:21:08] Yeah, no, I can't believe though that you actually had an aversion to math and then ended up

[00:21:15] majoring in it.

[00:21:17] I know.

[00:21:18] I know.

[00:21:19] That's quite the swing.

[00:21:20] I didn't want to have any children either, Pam.

[00:21:22] I have five.

[00:21:24] If you would ask me, do I want to live in the middle of nowhere?

[00:21:30] Kansas?

[00:21:32] No, no.

[00:21:34] I grew up in Alaska.

[00:21:35] And then, well, we moved a lot of places.

[00:21:38] And my dad built the Padres stadium.

[00:21:40] So, you know, they just don't need a second one when you're done.

[00:21:43] So we moved around a bit.

[00:21:44] So, but then here's a true story.

[00:21:47] I said, dad, I'm getting married.

[00:21:48] He said, oh, good.

[00:21:49] I'm going to divorce your mom.

[00:21:51] Right?

[00:21:52] So.

[00:21:55] So my mom, my brother, my sister and I all lived in California.

[00:21:58] So I lived there for nearly 30 years.

[00:22:00] That's where I met my husband.

[00:22:03] Had all our kids there.

[00:22:04] And then I came to Kansas for a visit over COVID.

[00:22:09] And then I just never went home.

[00:22:11] I just, I just, I just didn't go home.

[00:22:13] So, so this is my life story is, um, do you want to do this?

[00:22:18] No, no, I don't.

[00:22:19] Well, guess what?

[00:22:21] It's going to be your thing.

[00:22:25] Bizarre.

[00:22:26] I had promised the intro to teaching teacher that I would not teach.

[00:22:31] And then I was going to be an actuary.

[00:22:33] I was starting to be an actuary.

[00:22:34] I on purpose only took statistics classes,

[00:22:36] not the classes that you need to teach math.

[00:22:39] And, uh, my first, I got a job at a bank while I was studying for the actual exam.

[00:22:44] And my first day working at the bank, Clovis High School calls me and says,

[00:22:47] Hey, Alice, can you come in for a job interview tomorrow?

[00:22:50] Would you mind filling out an application?

[00:22:52] So I'm like, Hmm.

[00:22:54] Part-time minimum wage full-time with benefits.

[00:22:57] Yes.

[00:22:58] So I got into teaching for the money.

[00:23:01] You got headhunted.

[00:23:03] You got into teaching for the money.

[00:23:06] I did.

[00:23:07] I got into teaching for the money.

[00:23:09] I don't think we'll hear that as a sentence.

[00:23:11] Not usually.

[00:23:13] Especially when you're saying to be an actuary where you can actually make money.

[00:23:16] Absolutely.

[00:23:18] So maybe I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, but, um, you know, I enjoyed it.

[00:23:24] And they started the teacher credential program.

[00:23:26] They wheeled in this giant LCD projector.

[00:23:29] And they said, if anyone wants to use PowerPoint.

[00:23:33] I don't know what PowerPoint is, but I'm going to use this.

[00:23:37] So I started making really horrible PowerPoints for my students.

[00:23:41] And then the other teachers at camera is like, what are you doing?

[00:23:44] You have an, you have an LCD projector.

[00:23:46] I stole it from the library.

[00:23:48] You're only supposed to borrow it for a couple of hours.

[00:23:49] And I just never returned it.

[00:23:51] And they would come by my room.

[00:23:51] Like, have you seen the LCD projector?

[00:23:54] No, no.

[00:23:57] I bought that one from home.

[00:23:58] That one's, that's not yours.

[00:24:00] So I had an LCD projector.

[00:24:02] And actually when I started teaching in January of 1999, I inherited the laptop algebra program.

[00:24:08] So I have literally never, ever taught math without being one-to-one.

[00:24:13] I, for 25 years, I've been one-to-one teaching math.

[00:24:18] Really?

[00:24:18] I know.

[00:24:19] So it's just super, super unique, right?

[00:24:21] So then all these teachers are asking me questions.

[00:24:23] I'm like, well, I should probably like put this on a website.

[00:24:26] Well, then the website's public.

[00:24:27] Other people can see it.

[00:24:29] And then I got into Twitter and you know what I'm sharing there.

[00:24:32] And then I wrote a book.

[00:24:33] And the next thing I know, I'm famous.

[00:24:36] You're famous.

[00:24:38] Alice, do you remember when I first met you, I called you the Taylor Swift of ed tech?

[00:24:44] I would like to put Holly Clark up for that.

[00:24:48] She would be very offended to have that title to me.

[00:24:52] No one loves Taylor Swift more than Holly Clark.

[00:24:55] Oh, really?

[00:24:56] Oh, yeah.

[00:24:58] Her Facebook yesterday was her picture of her waiting in line to buy tickets to the Aeros tour.

[00:25:03] And I am positive that she has been more than five times.

[00:25:08] Really?

[00:25:09] I want to say 10, but I can comfortably say five.

[00:25:13] Do you know, Alice, when Taylor Swift, do you remember when we met in Edinburgh?

[00:25:18] It was cold and wet.

[00:25:20] Was it cold in Edinburgh?

[00:25:22] Yeah, come off it.

[00:25:23] Taylor Swift was in Edinburgh.

[00:25:25] Do you know what happened?

[00:25:25] Our hand froze.

[00:25:27] She was playing in Edinburgh at the stadium in Edinburgh.

[00:25:32] And her hand, like, did some weird kind of clamping up thing because of the weather, because it was so cold.

[00:25:39] Do you remember that food tour we took in Edinburgh?

[00:25:43] Oh, my gosh.

[00:25:44] Yes.

[00:25:44] The worst food tour I've ever had.

[00:25:46] I was embarrassed on behalf of Scotland.

[00:25:49] Yes.

[00:25:50] So what kind of food tour was it?

[00:25:53] I was talking up the food tour to you, Pam, right?

[00:25:54] Yeah.

[00:25:55] This is, like, life-changing.

[00:25:57] Wherever I go to a city, and that's also Holly Clark's fault.

[00:26:00] Her and I were presenting in Kazakhstan together, and we had a layover in Prague.

[00:26:04] She's like, we're doing a food tour.

[00:26:06] I'm like, okay, we're doing a food tour.

[00:26:09] And this is the best thing ever.

[00:26:10] And so now I do food tours everywhere that I go.

[00:26:13] So I'm like, Pam, Pam, do a food tour.

[00:26:16] Yeah.

[00:26:16] And it was a scam.

[00:26:17] So the guy did not give us a food tour.

[00:26:19] He gave us a regular tour.

[00:26:21] I thought the tour was good.

[00:26:22] Although I have been to the cemetery more times than I would like to count.

[00:26:28] So while it's lovely and has a lot of great stories, that isn't what I signed up for.

[00:26:33] The tour I signed up for did not go to the cemetery because I wanted to go to other places.

[00:26:37] And he threw some cookies at us, I think.

[00:26:40] And remember he said, so are you guys into Harry Potter?

[00:26:44] And the three of us just went, eh.

[00:26:48] So then he took us on the Harry Potter tour anyway.

[00:26:51] He did.

[00:26:52] He did.

[00:26:52] He did anyway.

[00:26:54] And he kept reminding that I was cold.

[00:26:57] And I'm like, I'm good.

[00:26:59] Trust me.

[00:27:00] He's like, I'm going to give you my jacket.

[00:27:02] I'm like, dude, I grew up in Alaska.

[00:27:04] If I tell you I'm good, I'm good.

[00:27:07] I had an alpaca sweater from Peru.

[00:27:10] I was warm.

[00:27:13] I remember because I was wearing my spreadsheet T-shirt.

[00:27:15] That's right.

[00:27:16] Right?

[00:27:17] And, you know, short sleeve.

[00:27:18] And I had the alpaca sweater.

[00:27:19] And yeah, you know, it's a poncho, actually.

[00:27:21] So I had to, like, literally wrap myself in it.

[00:27:24] But I was warm.

[00:27:26] He just wouldn't believe me.

[00:27:27] No.

[00:27:28] Ever since then, I've been like, someone should really start up a better food tour in Edinburgh.

[00:27:34] Oh, there is.

[00:27:36] There is.

[00:27:36] And I've gone on a food tour since then in Edinburgh.

[00:27:42] And was it better?

[00:27:43] It was definitely better.

[00:27:45] It was good.

[00:27:45] No.

[00:27:45] That was just a fluke.

[00:27:47] It's just that guy.

[00:27:47] That guy is running a scam.

[00:27:49] It was still a good day.

[00:27:51] It gave us good stories.

[00:27:53] Right?

[00:27:54] We had a fun time.

[00:27:55] We had a fun time.

[00:27:56] But we were starving.

[00:27:57] So we literally went out to dinner after the food tour.

[00:28:01] That's how it's supposed to go.

[00:28:03] You should be so full.

[00:28:06] You should be so full after a food tour.

[00:28:08] I know.

[00:28:09] I know.

[00:28:10] But anyway.

[00:28:11] But we had, you know, we went and sat down.

[00:28:13] We were good times.

[00:28:15] Exactly.

[00:28:15] It was a fun day.

[00:28:21] You'd mentioned, Alice, that you've got a website.

[00:28:25] So can we move in?

[00:28:27] Tell us about your website.

[00:28:29] Yeah, it's alicekeeler.com.

[00:28:31] So I like to joke that my blog is my job.

[00:28:34] And so I blog about EdTech.

[00:28:36] It's mostly a love letter to Google, let's be honest.

[00:28:39] But you know what?

[00:28:39] I could give a rat's behind about Google if I, you know, I'm really passionate about students.

[00:28:44] I'm passionate about students being passionate, about students and learning.

[00:28:48] Students and learning is my passion.

[00:28:50] I don't care what tools you use.

[00:28:51] My slogan is paperless is not a pedagogy.

[00:28:53] So how are we using this to empower students, give them a voice, allow them to have choice?

[00:29:00] And that's my angle.

[00:29:02] What's your favorite new thing?

[00:29:04] What's your favorite new tech?

[00:29:06] Like where are you at with sort of things you've discovered quite recently?

[00:29:11] Apart from Blue Skulls.

[00:29:13] Yeah, well, I just opened up this Chromebook yesterday.

[00:29:17] So this is a Lenovo Duet.

[00:29:20] Okay.

[00:29:22] And it is a full keyboard.

[00:29:25] This actually works out great when I'm just put on the table, it flips open.

[00:29:28] Oh, I was trying to open it from the bottom.

[00:29:30] That was my problem.

[00:29:33] I'm looking at the camera.

[00:29:34] I'm not looking at what I'm doing, right?

[00:29:36] But I really do love, I hate a front of the room.

[00:29:42] Like I want to de-center the classroom.

[00:29:45] Like I don't want a smart board at the front of the room.

[00:29:49] And there's another thing I could rant about how smart boards ruined ed tech.

[00:29:52] But anyway, I want to be out and moving around with the students.

[00:29:57] So the fact that this is both a full Chromebook and a tablet.

[00:30:02] It's so fast.

[00:30:04] Like I've had some Chromebooks in the past.

[00:30:05] And I mean, they were cheap.

[00:30:09] This one's really fast.

[00:30:10] So I'm thinking like, I'm going to go on a trip this weekend.

[00:30:13] I might just take that.

[00:30:14] Because I'm on the plane, I can use it in tablet mode.

[00:30:17] You know, when I'm sitting in the lounge, I can be using it, you know, as a keyboard.

[00:30:21] And I just learned this trick today is I can log into multiple Google accounts at once.

[00:30:27] Oh.

[00:30:28] On a Chromebook.

[00:30:29] So that, I mean, that's been a big hindrance for me is that I use multiple accounts, right?

[00:30:35] I've got my school account.

[00:30:36] I've got my, if you want to hire me to do professional development training, come out and do ed tech training.

[00:30:43] And I have my personal one account.

[00:30:46] So I need to like be in all of them at the same time.

[00:30:48] Sure.

[00:30:48] And so, so now you can like click on the bottom corner of your Chromebook.

[00:30:53] And then if you click on your name, so you don't click sign out, you click on your name and it lets you add more accounts.

[00:30:58] And then if you do control alt period, it cycles between the accounts.

[00:31:02] Like, so I learned that today.

[00:31:04] Amazing.

[00:31:05] Game changer.

[00:31:06] And so I'm really excited about it.

[00:31:08] So because I learned it today, I'm super excited about it.

[00:31:12] It's your favorite thing.

[00:31:13] Have you been doing stuff with...

[00:31:14] My favorite thing is chats on Twitter or not Twitter.

[00:31:18] Blue sky.

[00:31:18] Blue sky.

[00:31:19] Good save.

[00:31:20] So what else would you, would you change then about the education system?

[00:31:23] So you mentioned kind of pulling everybody or pulling that central point into the center of a room instead of being up against the whiteboard or the interactive whiteboard there.

[00:31:33] Why do my kids go to school?

[00:31:34] Why am I like, hey, I'm going to Peru next week.

[00:31:38] Come with me.

[00:31:38] Why do they say no?

[00:31:40] Because they love taking notes in math class?

[00:31:43] Nope.

[00:31:45] Nope.

[00:31:46] It's because they're in track.

[00:31:48] It's because they're in the school play.

[00:31:50] It's because there's something they're doing at school that helps them to be connected to other people.

[00:31:56] And to me, the great savior of ed tech is not that we can just stick kids on computer watching a really bad video and force them to take a low quality quiz.

[00:32:08] It's that we can allow school to be more being together.

[00:32:14] Right?

[00:32:15] Like, I just want more maker space, more being in the play.

[00:32:21] Why?

[00:32:22] Like, things that are experiential.

[00:32:24] Schools should be experiential.

[00:32:25] Why?

[00:32:26] Why has the answer been, let's just cram stuff down their throats they can Google?

[00:32:31] Yeah.

[00:32:32] And I'm not talking about the teachers.

[00:32:35] That's coming down.

[00:32:37] At least in the U.S.

[00:32:38] I don't know about Scotland.

[00:32:40] But it's, you know, oh, our scores are bad.

[00:32:44] Here's more standardized testing.

[00:32:46] More of the kids.

[00:32:46] More of the kids.

[00:32:47] Step scores.

[00:32:49] Get rid of the librarian.

[00:32:50] The librarian is the most important person on campus.

[00:32:54] Yeah.

[00:32:55] Because they're the one that connects everybody together and helps them to find these new technologies and how it connects their curriculum.

[00:33:03] Getting rid of the librarian just tells me you don't actually value education.

[00:33:10] That's horrible.

[00:33:11] We're going to get rid of the play.

[00:33:13] We're going to get rid of band.

[00:33:15] I will tell you what.

[00:33:17] I will get rid of math class before we get rid of band.

[00:33:19] And I say that with 100% seriousness.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:24] Okay.

[00:33:24] So I can just be like, actually, I can't say it because I have like 100 devices near me that if I say G-O-O-G-L-E, they all like light up.

[00:33:37] So I'm going to go with, okay, chat GPT.

[00:33:40] And I ask a question.

[00:33:42] It's going to tell me.

[00:33:44] Oh, if I feed it in here like, I have a lawn that is 14 feet by 15 feet.

[00:33:50] How much sod do I need to buy?

[00:33:53] Well, now we all know that.

[00:33:55] Yep.

[00:33:56] You've never taken a math class a day in your life?

[00:33:59] Cool.

[00:34:01] Because there's a million technologies that will do this for you.

[00:34:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:06] And do you think that's what makes it like, so we've all been in this kind of like education technology world for a number of years.

[00:34:13] And to be honest, I mean, I've been doing this since like 2010.

[00:34:18] And I thought, I thought progress and impact was going to happen a long time ago.

[00:34:24] And I'm kind of like, it's not, you know, it's not, it's, I've tried hard, but I still feel like.

[00:34:30] We've been drug backwards in some circumstances.

[00:34:34] Why have we not?

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:35] And is it because we, like, actually what we're trying to do is fit a square peg in a round hole.

[00:34:41] We're trying to.

[00:34:42] We're trying to control people.

[00:34:44] We're trying to control the teachers.

[00:34:45] Yeah.

[00:34:46] And we're trying.

[00:34:47] By giving them terrible curriculum.

[00:34:49] Like, ooh, look, you can do your math on the computer.

[00:34:53] Have the kids sit there at a screen and not talk to anybody.

[00:34:59] Really?

[00:35:05] So, like, I often think it'd be, like, imagine we were to sort of reinvent the whole system.

[00:35:10] What would it, you know, what would it look like?

[00:35:13] And I think.

[00:35:14] Teachers would have four hours a day that they're not teaching.

[00:35:18] Yes.

[00:35:19] No, I'm serious.

[00:35:20] No, see, same.

[00:35:21] I'm a thousand percent serious.

[00:35:22] I am too.

[00:35:23] I'm over it with teachers should.

[00:35:25] I'm over it.

[00:35:26] Should, should I call parents?

[00:35:28] Should I give a positive phone call to every student in my class?

[00:35:33] I am down for that.

[00:35:34] I do it.

[00:35:35] Now I'm down for it and I do it.

[00:35:39] When did I do that?

[00:35:41] Outside of my contract hours.

[00:35:45] Okay.

[00:35:46] So, I have the lesson plan.

[00:35:48] I have to grade papers.

[00:35:50] I have to go to PLC meetings, which are not really PLC meetings.

[00:35:54] They're just a department meeting.

[00:35:56] I have to go.

[00:35:57] I have so, see, so many.

[00:35:59] I have to.

[00:36:02] Just more meetings.

[00:36:04] I have more meetings.

[00:36:04] And then they're like, oh, we need you to do this other thing.

[00:36:07] And you can do it on your prep period.

[00:36:09] Really?

[00:36:09] Because when am I supposed to do this other stuff?

[00:36:11] So, when I started teaching 25 years ago, I was told by my colleague next door, you know,

[00:36:18] there's a plate and they just keep putting more bricks on it.

[00:36:21] And they never take them off.

[00:36:22] And that was 25 years ago.

[00:36:24] And I've had 25 years of more bricks being added on.

[00:36:27] Yeah.

[00:36:33] Yeah.

[00:36:36] Okay.

[00:36:37] Cool.

[00:36:37] Cool.

[00:36:38] Make sure that it all falls down on me, right?

[00:36:40] Like, I'm the one, the standard bearer for the kids.

[00:36:43] Even though you've put every barrier in front of me.

[00:36:45] You've given me 35-minute periods.

[00:36:47] Three minutes to go pee.

[00:36:50] I can't even breathe.

[00:36:52] A 20-minute lunch period.

[00:36:55] You've required that I fill out all of this paperwork for each kid.

[00:36:58] And, and, and, and, and we're going to put in fluorescent lighting, which we know sucks

[00:37:04] the energy out of kids.

[00:37:05] And we're not going to give them breakfast.

[00:37:08] And we know if kids don't eat, they can't learn.

[00:37:10] But, you know, we're not going to help you with any of that.

[00:37:12] You'll figure it out.

[00:37:14] So where's, where's all this great.

[00:37:17] I agree with that.

[00:37:17] Let's do it.

[00:37:18] Let's do it for the kids.

[00:37:19] Let's do it for the kids.

[00:37:19] Give the teachers four hours a day to do the list.

[00:37:23] And then you're not allowed to take it home.

[00:37:28] How about that?

[00:37:29] How about just have some work-life balance?

[00:37:32] And I saw this on your little form.

[00:37:33] And by little, I mean, the world's longest form I've ever seen.

[00:37:37] Yeah.

[00:37:38] Thanks for that.

[00:37:41] So, yeah.

[00:37:45] I read all my answers.

[00:37:47] You can tell that I'm like.

[00:37:48] I've learned them all.

[00:37:51] But you're like, how do you have work-life balance?

[00:37:54] I'm like, don't ask me.

[00:37:55] I am not the poster child for work-life balance.

[00:37:58] But really what teachers are.

[00:38:00] Because you can't.

[00:38:01] Can't.

[00:38:03] The system is designed for you to give free overtime.

[00:38:10] And to guilt you if you want to spend time with your family.

[00:38:16] I mean, that's certainly, we could echo that.

[00:38:20] So much of what you just said there in Scotland.

[00:38:24] It's not unique to your context.

[00:38:27] It's just a kind of thing.

[00:38:30] If we really want to redesign education, we need to give teachers more time.

[00:38:36] So there's my short answer.

[00:38:37] Yeah.

[00:38:37] I would agree 100%.

[00:38:40] It's the, it feels like, I don't know how it feels culturally in the States around education at the moment.

[00:38:46] But here, there's a real like breaking point feeling.

[00:38:51] I think people are at a breaking point.

[00:38:54] It's global.

[00:38:56] You know, but it's okay, Pam.

[00:38:58] Because we can just put them on a computer program.

[00:39:04] Do you know, there's actually probably a lot of the ticky box stuff.

[00:39:09] I mean, is it on purpose that they're trying to drive us out so they can save some money by just throwing the kids on a piece of garbage?

[00:39:16] Curriculum?

[00:39:16] Online?

[00:39:18] Is that what's happening?

[00:39:19] Are you seeing that?

[00:39:19] Learning should be humanizing.

[00:39:21] It should be humanizing.

[00:39:23] Let me get a sticker that says that.

[00:39:24] Do you remember the, do you remember the advert?

[00:39:28] It's not an advert, but it was like a video Google search did a few years ago.

[00:39:33] And it used to make me cry every time I saw it.

[00:39:37] I used to, I used to play it at training events.

[00:39:41] And it was like, it was basically, yeah, we've got Google search, right?

[00:39:46] And we've got Google and we've got technology.

[00:39:48] But the whole film was about the relationships and the human aspect of learning and teaching.

[00:39:56] And how that's the most important thing.

[00:39:59] You've probably seen it many times.

[00:40:00] It's the one where there's educators with like masks on and dressed up as ridiculous things and standing on tables and high-fiving pupils at the door.

[00:40:11] It's absolutely brilliant.

[00:40:12] Well, what we'll do is we'll post a link to that video.

[00:40:15] That's an happy way in the UK.

[00:40:16] Yeah.

[00:40:16] All right.

[00:40:17] Yeah.

[00:40:17] Well, it was Google.

[00:40:18] It was Google search.

[00:40:19] You know, it's like a year in search.

[00:40:22] They do it every year as I kind of like looking back.

[00:40:24] It was just beautiful.

[00:40:26] What we'll do is now, we'll remember to put a link to that in the show notes for this.

[00:40:31] It's a beautiful video, but it just makes the point you make there that it's that human element.

[00:40:37] And I don't know about you guys, but like here, all my educator friends are like telling me like we are social workers and we are, you know, we are everything.

[00:40:48] Because public money's been withdrawn from all these other services.

[00:40:52] So that lands on the teacher.

[00:40:56] It does.

[00:40:57] It does land on the teacher.

[00:40:58] So I'm not being grumpy.

[00:40:59] I'm just saying it's time to like put the teacher back in teaching.

[00:41:07] It is, I care about you and I have time to care about you.

[00:41:11] And I don't have any stones to throw on people who feel tired.

[00:41:14] You should feel tired.

[00:41:16] The system is continuing to put in bricks.

[00:41:18] You know what, when you have a gap, like so you have, this is where the student is and this is grade level.

[00:41:25] When you have a gap between where they're supposed, where they are and where they're supposed to be and it's multiple years.

[00:41:32] If you can raise a kid up one grade level, you're a super teacher.

[00:41:39] You are a super teacher.

[00:41:40] So as a teacher of ninth graders, if I have a kid who comes in a second grade level and I raise them up to a third grade level, that should be like confetti.

[00:41:48] But no, I'm told I'm not good enough.

[00:41:51] You know, we don't grade on growth.

[00:41:53] Imagine we graded on happiness.

[00:41:57] That's a nice thought, isn't it?

[00:42:00] Why can't we?

[00:42:01] Politicians are the answer.

[00:42:07] Alice, thank you so, so, so, so much.

[00:42:10] This is, I've loved our chat.

[00:42:12] I feel like we could just chat all night.

[00:42:15] It's been so, so good.

[00:42:17] It's lunchtime for me, so we'll chat all afternoon.

[00:42:20] It's dinnertime for us.

[00:42:21] Yes.

[00:42:22] No, I was like that.

[00:42:22] I'm starving.

[00:42:23] This is our second.

[00:42:24] I know a food tour you should not take.

[00:42:26] Yes.

[00:42:29] Don't do that one in Edinburgh.

[00:42:32] I'm really hoping there's a better one.

[00:42:34] There's so many better ones.

[00:42:35] I'm going to come back, Pam.

[00:42:36] I need a redemption.

[00:42:37] I need a redemption.

[00:42:39] Food tour with you.

[00:42:40] Let's do it.

[00:42:41] In fact, we'll just make it up.

[00:42:42] I'll take you on one.

[00:42:43] Yes.

[00:42:44] And I've done that and we're going to do it.

[00:42:46] Do it.

[00:42:47] Amazing.

[00:42:48] Are you going to be a bet in January?

[00:42:50] Are you going to?

[00:42:51] I have a concert.

[00:42:52] What's your thoughts?

[00:42:53] I'd like to.

[00:42:54] I'd like to, but I am doing a presentation, giving a keynote in Los Angeles.

[00:42:59] Oh.

[00:43:00] And I mean, I do like Edinburgh.

[00:43:04] Well, London.

[00:43:05] I like the UK better than I like Los Angeles.

[00:43:08] Is that controversial?

[00:43:10] Well, do you know what?

[00:43:11] See, in January, I think you might be making the smart move.

[00:43:16] No.

[00:43:16] No?

[00:43:17] No.

[00:43:17] No.

[00:43:18] I mean, I lived in California for like 30 years.

[00:43:21] Um, the only thing good about Los Angeles is the Brea Tar Pit.

[00:43:25] So you should go there.

[00:43:26] Otherwise, it's just traffic.

[00:43:27] That's all it is, is one big ball of traffic.

[00:43:29] And I dare anyone to fight me on that.

[00:43:35] Well, let's hope we catch up sometime soon anyway.

[00:43:38] It's been a real, real pleasure.

[00:43:40] Lovely to chat to you.

[00:43:41] Thanks so much for giving us your time.

[00:43:44] And we are going to sign up to Blue Sky right now and follow you.

[00:43:53] Well, that's a wrap on another episode.

[00:43:55] Thank you so much for joining us on the Digitize Fully Charged podcast.

[00:43:59] If you want to find us online, we're at Digitize Crew on almost every social network.

[00:44:03] You can find us on our website, wearedigitize.com.

[00:44:08] Um, and of course you can follow all the podcasts on Apple, Spotify.

[00:44:13] We're on YouTube as well for the podcast too.

[00:44:16] So follow us, keep in touch.

[00:44:18] And if you want to join the podcast, you can check out our website, wearedigitize.com,

[00:44:22] where you can sign up using our content.

[00:44:25] Bye.

[00:44:25] Bye.

[00:44:26] Bye.

[00:44:27] Bye.

[00:44:27] Bye.

[00:44:27] Bye.